COLMES: Welcome back to our coverage of the aftermath of the terrorist attacks on the United States.

Word came from the Defense Department today that American warplanes are being deployed to the Persian Gulf as part of Operation Infinite Justice. But there's concern at home and abroad that the United States is ill-equipped to wage the sort of campaign that the White House is promising. Can a global campaign against terrorism be successful? And what's the price of Infinite Justice? Joining us now, former presidential candidate and chairman of The American Cause, Pat Buchanan.

And Pat, I was reading your words today, and when you -- and I read that you wrote, "How can our meddling not fail to spark some horrible retribution?" You say, "Have we not suffered enough from Pan Am 103 to the World Trade Center" -- talking about '93 and, of course, what happened here -- "the embassy bombings in Nairobi, dar es Salaam, not to know that interventionism is the incubator of terrorism?"

I thought I was reading Noam Chomsky.

PAT BUCHANAN: No, it was...

COLMES: I wonder, has the left and right met on this particular issue?

BUCHANAN: Well, no. Those are remarks I made in a speech two years ago, which I stand by. Interventionism is the spawning ground of terrorism. Ronald Reagan, when I served in his White House, made one of his great mistakes, Alan, when he put those Marines in Beirut after the government had been sort of blown up, literally. He put the Marines in Beirut, and they took sides in a civil war where we had no vital interest. The Marines were massacred, and Reagan fired some shells in retaliation and pulled out. And I think he did the right thing.

This is a different case. Clearly, an act of war has been perpetrated against us. We've got to respond in kind.

COLMES: I know you're saying we should respond, but are you being very cautious in saying we should only respond as much as necessary and then extricate ourselves, not get involved in a protracted war, as seems to be what is being suggested by our leaders at this time?

BUCHANAN: Well, you know, I disagree with Field Marshal Gingrich, who you just had just on there. He's going to declare war on seven countries. He left out two rogue states, Cuba and North Korea. Bill Bennett, has added China. I think this is simple madness. The United States should go after the people who did this, who aided and abetted them, who supported them, who sponsored them. We ought to be patient and go get them. But the idea of dropping the 82nd Airborne into Afghanistan, the idea of bombing Teheran or Damascus or Khartoum or Tripoli, as some are recommending -- that will kill fewer terrorists than it will create.

COLMES: And it might help to create a holy war because it'll mobilize the world, good versus evil, and could really lead to much greater conflict.

BUCHANAN: Well, there's no doubt they're evil. That's exactly right. But what happens then is that you inflame the entire Islamic community and you turn it into a war of America against Islam -- and the first states to go under in that war will be Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and the sheikdoms along the gulf, the weaker pro-American states.

I think what we want to do is: Caesar said divide and conquer. Peel off Syria from that anti-American coalition temporarily. Peel off Iran. Focus on the people that did it. Go get them. Get the job done, and then reconsider this idea of interventionism all over the world and become again a republic and not an empire.

COLMES: It sounds to me like we're hearing about protracted war, could go on for years. The messages I seem to be getting from this administration and preparing us as -- you know, as Americans, as American citizens for something about which we should not give up any time soon.

BUCHANAN: Well, there's no doubt that we ought to pursue these people to the end of our lives for what they did. It's mass murder. It is a war crime. It is an atrocity. But we want to pursue them. We do not want necessarily a wider war. Let's take Syria. About a year ago, the Israelis almost cut a deal with Syria for return of the Golan Heights except for 100 feet. Now, that's progress. Iran has elected a non-reactionary, Khatami, twice. That's progress. I think you build on that. Iran doesn't want -- it has no use for the Taliban. I would work with them, if I could.

And it seems to me this is -- this is wisdom. Get the guys that came after us.

HANNITY: Hey, Pat...

BUCHANAN: Yeah?

HANNITY: Welcome aboard, Pat. Good to see you, as always.

BUCHANAN: Good to see you.

HANNITY: I want -- I want to go back -- I know. It's great to see me? I'm kidding.

(LAUGHTER)

HANNITY: Look...

BUCHANAN: Listen, you remind me of Tucker Carlson in a lot of ways.

HANNITY: Well, you know -- you know -- go ahead. Take a shot at me, Pat. See if I care!

(LAUGHTER)

COLMES: He's not wearing a bow tie, Pat.

HANNITY: No, I don't wear bow ties. All right, I want to go back to what the president -- you know, you really know how to hurt a guy. You really do.

(LAUGHTER)

HANNITY: I want to go back to this -- this -- the president saying he'll make no distinction as it relates to those that harbor these terrorists and those that are actually involved in the terrorism. And Newt...

BUCHANAN: That's correct. That's correct.

HANNITY: All right, well, that's correct. So if we went through the list of countries we know that have historically been harboring terrorists, there's a pretty long list we've got there, Pat.

BUCHANAN: Well, you not only...

HANNITY: So in essence, you're agreeing with Newt.

BUCHANAN: No, no, no. Let's take this: The North Korean regime not only blew up an airliner, it blew up half of the South Korean cabinet. It not only harbored terror, it's a terrorist regime. It's on the list. Do we want to fight North Korea right now? The answer is no. We want to deal with the people who harbored the ones who did this...

HANNITY: Right.

BUCHANAN: ... and knew they were going to do it.

HANNITY: All right, well, fair enough. But it could be a number of countries. We don't know yet.

BUCHANAN: If it is...

HANNITY: And we haven't gotten to the bottom line here, but that means, basically, Pat Buchanan is suggesting that we will be at war with those countries.

BUCHANAN: No. What I say is this: Rush has been saying he thinks that Iraq did this. Now, my guess is Saddam Hussein is evil, but he's not totally stupid.

HANNITY: But wait a minute. But there was the intelligence report that...

BUCHANAN: Look, my guess is he has not had a hand. And that's a guess. If he did, then he's got to pay the price. There's no question about it.

HANNITY: Right. All right, well, then I would agree with that. But that means that we, then, are at war with that. I just want to make sure you're clear.

BUCHANAN: Well, look...

HANNITY: But wait a minute. Let me ask...

BUCHANAN: You got to deal with...

HANNITY: ... this simple question.

BUCHANAN: Sure.

HANNITY: Do you think this was an act of war? Are we at war with terrorists, the people responsible?

BUCHANAN: It is a act of war by whoever did this and whoever supported it against the United States of America, an act of terrorism and an act of war both.

HANNITY: All right...

BUCHANAN: It certainly is. And I would go after them. Look, someone -- I've heard someone say on an earlier show, you know, apprehend them and bring them back for trial. Uh-uh.

HANNITY: No way!

BUCHANAN: You don't go in and read them their Miranda rights...

HANNITY: Right.

BUCHANAN: ... if you find them in Afghanistan or some other country.

HANNITY: All right, let -- let me ask you this, then, in light of that, Tucker -- oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Buchanan. You wrote in your column, op- ed, LA Times, yesterday's edition -- you wrote...

BUCHANAN: Right.

HANNITY: ... "America today faces a choice of destinies. We can choose to be a peacemaker of the world or its policeman, who goes about night-sticking troublemakers until we, too, find ourselves in a bloody brawl that we cannot handle."

Well, I don't think that fits in this particular case.

BUCHANAN: Well, look, that's...

HANNITY: This was an unprovoked attack on freedom, on America. And I think we've got to hit back hard at anybody that offered any support. And it's an act of war. This is war!

BUCHANAN: Well, look, you're quoting from a speech of mine two years ago, which I quoted again.

HANNITY: No, I'm reading from...

BUCHANAN: OK?

HANNITY: ... yesterday's edition of LA Times. BUCHANAN: Well, that's in quotes. It's a speech of mine...

HANNITY: Well...

BUCHANAN: ... I quoted from two years ago. I definitely agree with that. What I think is that from Algeria to Afghanistan, there are wars going on there that are none of our business. They're religious, tribal, territorial, historic. They're not our quarrel. As Washington said, stay out of them if they're not.

This now is our quarrel because they attacked us. But once we deal with this, Sean, it is not our business to run around the world getting in, deciding who's the good guys, and think we're going to recreate Vermont somewhere in the Hindu Kush.

COLMES: All right, we're going to take a break right there. Stay with us. More with Pat Buchanan will come up in a moment, as our coverage continues right after this break. More HANNITY & COLMES.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HANNITY: As we continue on HANNITY & COLMES, and you're watching Fox News Channel's continuing coverage of the attacks on the United States.

We continue with former presidential candidate Patrick J. Buchanan.

Pat, this is what I'm taking from what you're saying, that you want to go in there, you want to pick off the guys responsible, we'll hit some of the locations of the states that have sponsored terrorism or offered logistical support, and then you want to get the heck out of there.

I mean, it doesn't sound realistic to me that that's a possibility. It sounds more realistic. If we're not going to make a distinction, those that am -- are involved and those that offer support, then we're going to be at war with those that offered support.

BUCHANAN: Look, do I believe we ought to bomb Kabul? No, I think the Afghans were our friends. We helped them win their independence from Soviet bondage. We helped them win their liberty.

But if you go in there either with troops, and you go in and bomb them, just like any nation you bomb, they're going to unite because we're going to kill a lot of innocent people. And they're going to want to come after us.

So the question is, are you going to do more damage than good if you go in there striking them?

Now, Sean, I think what is being missed here, what was done at the Trade Center, one of the most evil acts I've ever seen, you got to ask us, what motivates that kind of hatred? Why did they do it? Why do they hate us so much?

HANNITY: Well, that's my...

BUCHANAN: Go ahead.

HANNITY: ... the -- but that's -- but that's the question you had in The L.A. Times piece. You're saying some of this was written for two years ago. And you raised the question, and you say, "But what I said then retains relevance," meaning today...

BUCHANAN: All right, here's what...

HANNITY: ... "How could, how could all our meddling not fail to spark some horrible retribution?" And Jonah Goldberg wrote a column and somewhat critical of you. And the implication is, Pat, is, you're suggesting that we caused this act of terrorism against us.

BUCHANAN: No. What I'm saying is this. We have an act of mass murder committed against us. We ought to go out and kill the people that did it. But we ought to find out the motive. Why does bin Laden and his gang hate us?

HANNITY: Why?

BUCHANAN: And what is their objective? It's not Israel, which everybody is talking about...

HANNITY: It's a part of it.

BUCHANAN: ... bin Laden is a Saudi. He believes that we have come into his country, we've set up a puppet government of princes and thieves who loot it and go spend the money in the fleshpots. He believes we're taking their natural resource oil. He sees American troops on his sacred soil. He also looks at us and says, They bring in here their -- they bring in here their abortions, their drugs, their pornography, all of this, corrupting our youth, their satanic music. I'm going to fight to the death, and Allah's told me to do it, to get them out of there. Let's understand his motive.

HANNITY: All right. I don't have a problem with an intellectual analysis of what's in the mind of this man and what's, what's, what's guiding him to, to perform these acts of terror against us. I don't think you can diminish, though, our association with our close ally and friend Israel, number one, nor I think there are people around the world that just hate the United States, hate what we represent, hate freedom, hate that we fight for freedom...

BUCHANAN: But you know, Sean...

HANNITY: ... around the world, hate prosperity that we have enjoyed here.

BUCHANAN: Sean, you know something? You are saying -- and excuse me, this is very simplistic -- we are good, we have a Bill of Rights...

HANNITY: Yes, we are.

BUCHANAN: They don't hate the Bill of Rights.

HANNITY: So people hate goodness, Pat. And some people hate our support of Israel. And it can be that simple.

BUCHANAN: But look, there's no doubt that Israel is universally hated in the Middle East and the Near East...

HANNITY: And so are we for supporting them.

BUCHANAN: All right, and America is, but at the same time, there are countries and Arabs in the Middle East who know that the United States is the only broker that can bring some kind of deal that will bring peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis, and thereby ease some of the tensions in their own country.

Others don't want peace, they want permanent war with Israel. They want to drive them out. And they would love to get the United States and Israel into an all-out war with the Arab and Muslim which would be playing into bin Laden's hands.

COLMES: I want to...

BUCHANAN: The greatest victory we can give that terrorist is if the United States follows the advice of these people that say, Let's go in and bomb them all and just demand this, demand that, and bomb them if they don't give it to. They can retire, because then they got the war they want, and we have given them exactly...

COLMES: I have to find myself listening to your words and I think agreeing with you more than I have in the past on this program.

BUCHANAN: You're coming around, Alan, you're coming around.

COLMES: Because I -- they want a holy war, and our actions could indeed spark that on.

But I want to go back to something you said in that piece quoted in Los Angeles Times today, when you said, "How can our meddling not fail to spark some horrible retribution?" You said that two years ago.

BUCHANAN: Right.

COLMES: But is that to say that in any way, shape, or form, we are responsible for the atrocity visited upon us on September 11?

BUCHANAN: No. Total moral responsibility rests with the individuals that did it. However, if the United States had not fought the Iraq war, and if we didn't have 5,000 troops in Saudi Arabia right now -- let's take the latter. If we didn't have 5,000 people in Saudi Arabia and all those other people there, would bin Laden be focusing on the United States?

I don't know. If the United States -- why didn't they attack England? Why didn't they attack France? Why not Japan? They're free, they got their own constitution.

COLMES: But if you're saying that our actions, then, in some say did spark September 11...

BUCHANAN: I'm not saying that.

COLMES: ... then we must take responsibility for that.

BUCHANAN: I'm saying -- no, I'm saying we are the Roman Empire. We are the British Empire. And terrorism and attacks are the price of empire. We got to pay these guys back, get every one of them. But then let's reflect whether we want to be an empire or whether we want to be a republic.

COLMES: But you said the United States…You accuse the United States of meddling elsewhere in the world, and that that meddling has led to the attitudes that have that -- thus led to the response we got on September 11.

BUCHANAN: Let's give me an example. I think what we did to Serbia's one of the worst things I've ever seen in my life. We intervened in a civil war, bombed them for 78 days. People that were pro-American, they were allies in World War II, and then we go in there and bomb them and destroy their country because they're trying to -- they're battling an ugly, nasty civil war in Kosovo.

Why did we do it? They didn't attack us. If someday a Serb blow -- God forbid, blows up some American airliner, who's going to be responsible? I won't say he did the right thing, but I will say it goes back to that.

HANNITY: All right, Patrick J. Buchanan, always good to see you, Pat, thanks for being with us tonight.